Buildrate in Unity [Revote - Poll reset when I added to it]

[Kaz]

As you are all aware, Unity has a different Buildrate than all of the other games.

This was put in place originally to reduce the size of realms.

Link has suggested that the BRT be restored to previous values. I was wondering what the average view was rearding this.

These are the current BRT's in play.

Unity BRT
4, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25

Standard BRT
4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30

I have put up a poll to see what you guys actually prefer. I have also enabled the 'revoting' option incase somebody makes an arguement that changes your opinion.

[EDIT]
Have added a Variable BRT option following Geothe's suggestion.

[Gili]

I'm not sure if its a product of other changes in game. But from my point of view the less built realms means more chance to be able to beat on people who are ahead. Of course it could be argued that you can build faster from the lower sizes in the past.

But personally other than the relative ease ( especially the last couple of ages ) to scum/sorc kill people...I like the game pretty much how it is.

I've voted for 'as is'...but am open to be converted

[Maverick]

What is the solo, lqs, build rate?

Is that the one you listed, or is it another one?

[Kaz]

Its the original BRT Mav (4,6,8,10,12..etc)

It's only Unity that changed.

[Maverick]

Thanks just wanted to make sure I was interpreting it correctly.

[Kwaiq]

I think its fine how its is.

[Geothe]

I dont know if it would be a huge pain in the ass.
But I would like to see a higher buildrate for smaller realms and keep the slower one on bigger realms.
(ie, my interpretation of your "Faststart" voting option)

Reason:
A) Allows those hit down during the age to get build back up faster.
B) Keeps the bigger ones building "slower" so they dont outdistance everyone else drastically.

Do something like.
If under 12k acres, use the old/faster build rate.
If over 12k acres, use the new/slower build rate.

So yes, someones buildrate will plummet if they go from 11,999 to 12,001 acres, and that will take a bit of getting used to, but I think the higher BR for smaller kingdoms willl really help bring them back up faster.

[Shifty]

It's a catch 22 really. The way the game has changed, the population etc... a slower build rate may benefit everyone. However, if you get too far behind it would make it impossible to catch up.

I think I am in favor of a slower build rate though.

[owly]

geothe has a good idea i like it....

Mainly because i get hit down a lot they know i'm active so i get pounded everytime lol. I'd love to see small realms with a faster build rate and the bigger realms with a slower build rate...

[Reylan Talonspyre]

I voted for Fast.

Quicker build rates means faster build times, in essence, more wars.

[Kaz]

Something like this geothe?

0-8k acre
4, 8, 12, 15, 18, 20, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36

8-16k acre
4, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25

16k+ acre
4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23

[Kaz]

Bah!

If you add to the poll is wipes the results

Sorry guys

[Shifty]

I guess if we start looking at this idea we need to debate whether we are all interesting in winning this game or just playing it.

If we make adjustments like Goethe suggests, it will make it a lot harder to stay on top, a position that I do not envy anyone btw, stuck where you cannot make a first strike or people will complain, you wait for imminent death and destruction. Now, on top of all that, you cannot even stay ahead by building up anymore?

I dunno...

[Kwaiq]

I think Goethes variable BPT encourages a more Goblins style play, why spend all those turns building a large kingdom when it can get destroyed faster and more often by someone who takes the game less seriously. Not only will you build slower but you'll have to use more turns keeping down those below you. As it is your BPT goes down as you grow anyways. By this new system if you're a 15k kingdom and you take 10k land, you're BPT will drop dramatically, from both the extra land and the lowered scale. I don't think we need a double deterrent for gaining land.

It discourages growth, and gives more power to the guilds with the most members, and it give more power to sorc, which in my opinion is a bit over powered as is.

[Reylan Talonspyre]

Shifty makes a great point. Though I will say, once on top, it should become more political choices rather than simple number crunching that will make wars OK. Some of the best and worst moments of this game (and where great GMs are truly born) is holding the top position. Getting there is fine and dandy, but holding that position is the most difficult thing a guild can do. It tests everything you have already.

I remember Sanguine Fate ~SF~ holding it in Mo'Pri/Improv for a long ass time. It was so hard for them to hit down from their position, they had to invent new decrees to ensure they could still gain a little land. Scout them, they will hit you. That sort of thing.

I suggest that portion of the game stays the same, otherwise, why even care if you get up top, if it is going to suck even more than it does already.

It discourages growth, and gives more power to the guilds with the most members, and it give more power to sorc, which in my opinion is a bit over powered as is.

I agree with Kwaiq as well.

[Geothe]

I wouldnt go -that- extreme kaz.

Low Acres:
4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34

Higher Acres:
4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23

With the switch point being somewhere in the 10-15k acre range (probably closer to 10k than to 15k)

Its not a HUGE difference but enough for a nice boost for lower realms.
ie, at 40% quarries a smaller realm with have a BR of 20 instead of 12, which is a nice 67% buildrate increase.

[Kaz]

Maybe that was a bit extreme, I still personally like the 3 tiers though. Have indicated the 30% and 40% areas that people tend to aim for with their quarries.

0-10k acre [Old BRT]
4, 6, 8, 10, 12, [14], 16, [18], 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30
Up to war number 1, and after being battered you get to play at the BRT in use in the other games.

10-30k acre [Unity BRT]
4, 6, 8, 9, 10, [11], 12, [13], 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25
Once war 1 is over, you drop down to the current Unity BRT

30k+ acre [Slow BRT]
4, 5, 6, 7, 8, [9], 10, [11], 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23
If you manage to stay alive for a couple of wars you drop to the slow BRT

[Kwaiq]

I did change my vote to 'medium' actually, as it does seem to be taking people a bit too long to build back to hitting strength, people get impatient and the lower guilds just keep beating the crap out of each other or hitting the top guilds before they're really ready to. Thus leaving the gap in the ranks we see today and setting up for a long boring build session for those who do the best the first 2-4 weeks of the game.

So i agree in essence with Geothe that smaller kingodoms shoudl have an increase build advantage over what they have now, i just don't necessarily agree with that much of a boost. I think switching back to the old scale should work just fine to rectify any perceived imbalanced. After all it worked for years.

[Dauthi]

I like the idea of a three tier build rate, but I also see a problem with it. At the current rate of land taking for every 100 acres of land you take you get 1 acre of it built, If that was increased to say 5 acres of it built, that would be LESS building a kingdom woul dhave to do that help offset some of the drop in buildrate it would lose from taking all that open land.

Personally I think the idea of building a huge kingdom is pointless since this is a WAR game not a sim city game, so take my opinion as it is.

[Kaz]

Coming to think on it,

It does make sense to initially have the same BRT as the other games. It means that people who start off playing Solo or Massacre are able to jump straight into Unity and know their initial build strategy, without having to relearn the game.

A complete reversion back to the old way will just ensure a return of everyone having huge realms again. So the changing to the Unity BRT (which has been working) after a certain acarage has been reached, should give the best of both worlds.

I'm not sure how the third tier would affect things, but as a few people had called for super slow BRT I added it

[Kwaiq]

i think we're forgetting that the land we take is empty which means if you start off with 15k acres with 40% quarries, and go to war and take 15k more, then you're up a tier and cut your percentage in half.

So you're left with 20% quarries on 30k acres and your build rate went from 13 to 6, just because you were successful in war.


based on that scale Kaz, to get a build rate of 11 at 31k acres, you'll need 12k quarries, thats just not practical. I would downsize land and sorc kill, because it would be a more effective use of turns. Building wouldn't make sense.

[Tnemnethgilne]

Could I suggest, a constant build rate based on a % of your kingdom size? Mills would lower the cost of building.

Bigger kingdoms would pay much more per turn(because they build more), and smaller kd would pay much less.

10% mills would lower costs by 20%,
20% by 30%
30 by 45%
40% by 60%
50& by 75%

[Shifty]

Kwaiq, I was going to blurt all that out as well but I think we're gonna lose this fight and I wanted to keep that strategy to myself lol

[Kaz]

Kwaiq,

In the old days if you had a 15k realm with 40% quarries, and doubled your land, you would have dropped from 18BRT to 10BRT (-8).

Currently with BRT as it is, the same war example would see you drop from 13BRT to 9BRT (-4). This suggestion would see a drop from 13BRT to 7BRT (-6), and you could easily downsize 1 acre to put you back in the middle zone, and jump to 9BRT.

Prior to me accidentally resetting the votes, people were wanting to keep BRT as it is, rather than return to the old ways, and the Unity BRT and +30k acres slow BRT are not really all that different.

The main difference would be when you cross the 10k threshold and drop suddenly from 18BRT to 13BRT after a tithe, rather than issues crossing the 30k threshold after taking land.

There is also a suggestion to increase the amount of built land taken when you take land. That suggestion was made in the old and new suggestions threads, and I like it, so would most impliment it at the same time as any BRT change (neither would occur mid-age).

Tnemnethgilne,

I dont like the idea of a constant BRT. However, changing the per-structure-per-turn cash cost may be worth considering. Although, it would work in the opposite to your suggestion, as the bigger realms would have more quarries and more quarries would mean cheaper gold costs.

Shifty,

I wouldnt worry too much anyway. When the 7 people that voted for 'keep it how it is' revote this discussion will drop to 2nd place anyway lol

[Shifty]

I will say, once on top, it should become more political choices rather than simple number crunching that will make wars OK.

I see the politcal intrigue in this game as a major problem to be honest. I think a lot of people are getting tired of it.

If we varied BRT from age to age, it would keep things interesting as well. Maybe have one age where after X amount of acres, say 20k, (but it could even be as low as 5k, imagine THAT) your BRT drops to 1 and cannot go higher. Imagine the strat you would need to use there...